Showing posts with label Jesus is not god heres proof from the Bible. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Jesus is not god heres proof from the Bible. Show all posts
Wednesday, March 19, 2014
Sunday, July 12, 2009
Sunday, March 22, 2009
A Christians questions 3
So the Christian did not like the fact that I had used logic to explain that the Trinity was illogical but I said that I should prove my points using the Bible and some Historical sources.
Jesus (upon him peace) said, "Do not think that I came to destroy the law or the Prophets. I did not come to destory but to fulfill." Mathew 5:17-18
You already know that I am going to refute Christanity so why are you suprised?
The whole problem with modern Christan faith is that it's is based on blind faith. Which can easily be disproved without logic so now lets disprove Christanity without logic and proofs from the Bible.
The Christan belief negates the first two commandments that all the prophets lived and died upon. This is also the belief of Jesus:
Mathew 4, 10, "Then Jesus said to him... Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God , and him alone shalt thou serve."
So this proves that there is one God and no sons him alone shall you serve.
Mathew 19, 18, "keep the commandments."
“If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17, also see Mark 10:19).
He also said that Jesus is the servant of that God, for we read in Acts:
“The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus.” (Acts 3:13).
This confirms his belief in what came before and what will be so anyone believing in the Trinity is believing something other that what Jesus himself believed. And the verse we began with proves without a shadow of a doubt that Jesus (upon him peace) believed in the commandments that modern Christans do not.
Historical facts:
Jesus (upon him peace) was called king of the Jews(Mathew 23.38), Mark 16, 26. Why? If was living differently then he would've called something else. This also proves he had the same beliefs of them. Now compare this to the pauls version which has no place for the law.
From Mark of the beast by Tim Wallace murphy and Ravenscroft page 79. "Paul joined the ebionite community in Jerusalam to learn the true way of Jesus"
Then "It is clear that there was a fundemental difference between the way as interpreted by James and the Edionties on one hand, and that preached by paul on the other." Tim wallace murphy - What Islam did for us page 59
Also aruis rejected and refused the pagan interpretations of paul.
The Trinity is not a teaching of Jesus or of the early Christians. As noted previously, it is “a teaching of the church.” In its 1999 issue on the Trinity, The Living Pulpit observed: “Sometimes, it seems that everyone assumes that the doctrine of the trinity is standard Christian theological fare,” but it added that it is not “a biblical idea.”
The New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967) discusses the Trinity at length and admits: “The Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th-century invention. . . . The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.”
The Bible tells of many gods and goddesses that people worshiped, including Ashtoreth, Milcom, Chemosh, and Molech. (1 Kings 11:1, 2, 5, 7) Even many people in the ancient nation of Israel once believed that Baal was the true God. So Jehovah’s prophet Elijah presented the challenge: “If Jehovah is the true God, go following him; but if Baal is, go following him.”—1 Kings 18:21.
The worship of pagan gods grouped in threes, or triads, was also common before Jesus was born. “From Egypt came the ideas of a divine trinity,” observed historian Will Durant. In the Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, James Hastings wrote: “In Indian religion, e.g., we meet with the trinitarian group of Brahmā, Siva, and Viṣṇu; and in Egyptian religion with the trinitarian group of Osiris, Isis, and Horus.”
So I have proved my point with logic but now with proof from the Bible and history, so for much longer will you deny these points?
The religion of Christanity was made up from different parts of paganism and this has nothing to with the religion of Jesus (upon him peace). As Jesus and all the Prophets had the same belief.
If you want to debate with me then you are welcome but know I am quite skilled in this field. The Last Christan three christans who debated with me are now studying Islam to find out the Truth.
Jesus (upon him peace) said, "Do not think that I came to destroy the law or the Prophets. I did not come to destory but to fulfill." Mathew 5:17-18
You already know that I am going to refute Christanity so why are you suprised?
The whole problem with modern Christan faith is that it's is based on blind faith. Which can easily be disproved without logic so now lets disprove Christanity without logic and proofs from the Bible.
The Christan belief negates the first two commandments that all the prophets lived and died upon. This is also the belief of Jesus:
Mathew 4, 10, "Then Jesus said to him... Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God , and him alone shalt thou serve."
So this proves that there is one God and no sons him alone shall you serve.
Mathew 19, 18, "keep the commandments."
“If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17, also see Mark 10:19).
He also said that Jesus is the servant of that God, for we read in Acts:
“The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus.” (Acts 3:13).
This confirms his belief in what came before and what will be so anyone believing in the Trinity is believing something other that what Jesus himself believed. And the verse we began with proves without a shadow of a doubt that Jesus (upon him peace) believed in the commandments that modern Christans do not.
Historical facts:
Jesus (upon him peace) was called king of the Jews(Mathew 23.38), Mark 16, 26. Why? If was living differently then he would've called something else. This also proves he had the same beliefs of them. Now compare this to the pauls version which has no place for the law.
From Mark of the beast by Tim Wallace murphy and Ravenscroft page 79. "Paul joined the ebionite community in Jerusalam to learn the true way of Jesus"
Then "It is clear that there was a fundemental difference between the way as interpreted by James and the Edionties on one hand, and that preached by paul on the other." Tim wallace murphy - What Islam did for us page 59
Also aruis rejected and refused the pagan interpretations of paul.
The Trinity is not a teaching of Jesus or of the early Christians. As noted previously, it is “a teaching of the church.” In its 1999 issue on the Trinity, The Living Pulpit observed: “Sometimes, it seems that everyone assumes that the doctrine of the trinity is standard Christian theological fare,” but it added that it is not “a biblical idea.”
The New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967) discusses the Trinity at length and admits: “The Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th-century invention. . . . The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.”
The Bible tells of many gods and goddesses that people worshiped, including Ashtoreth, Milcom, Chemosh, and Molech. (1 Kings 11:1, 2, 5, 7) Even many people in the ancient nation of Israel once believed that Baal was the true God. So Jehovah’s prophet Elijah presented the challenge: “If Jehovah is the true God, go following him; but if Baal is, go following him.”—1 Kings 18:21.
The worship of pagan gods grouped in threes, or triads, was also common before Jesus was born. “From Egypt came the ideas of a divine trinity,” observed historian Will Durant. In the Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, James Hastings wrote: “In Indian religion, e.g., we meet with the trinitarian group of Brahmā, Siva, and Viṣṇu; and in Egyptian religion with the trinitarian group of Osiris, Isis, and Horus.”
So I have proved my point with logic but now with proof from the Bible and history, so for much longer will you deny these points?
The religion of Christanity was made up from different parts of paganism and this has nothing to with the religion of Jesus (upon him peace). As Jesus and all the Prophets had the same belief.
If you want to debate with me then you are welcome but know I am quite skilled in this field. The Last Christan three christans who debated with me are now studying Islam to find out the Truth.
Monday, February 09, 2009
A Christans questions part two
His questions
Thanks for getting back. I know we are not going to agree on the death and resurrection of Jesus and you know that I do not agree that worshiping Jesus is polytheism - since the Father and Jesus are one.
In John 20 Thomas who like you didn't believe in the resurrection met the resurrcted Jesus. He then got on his knees and declared Jesus to be "My Lord and my God!" Jesus' reply was not - "Wait on there Thomas - you are falling out of the frying pan of disbelieve into the fire of herresy!" No it was "How slow you are to believe". Jesus accepted the ultimate worship - the declaration of "My Lord and my God!" Unless Jesus is God then Jesus could not even be considered as a prophet.
I was interested that you state that Christianity has 'no more importance' because it has been rejected by Western Societies. Western societies have rejected religion and God per se - not just Christianity - so the Muslim faith is in the same boat in this one. Your argument suggests that if it has been rejected by one particular culture then this in some way disproves Christianity as being true. In fact there are more people who profess to be Christians in the world (2.1 billion) then there are Muslim (1.5 billion). [Christianity in the largest populated country in the world (China) is growing fast]. This means that more people in the world have rejected the Muslim faith than Christianity.
However, this still proves nothing: Western culture have accepted homosexuality as being acceptable - this doesn't make its attitude true!
Thank you for your very interesting point about how Jesus and the Prophets prayed - I think laying prostrate on the ground is a good way of praying, (there is a real reverence in this!) but not the only way. In John 17 v1 for example, Jesus 'looked toward heaven and prayed'.
Peace
Our response
Dear Brother
In Islam the understanding of God makes logical sense which is something that cannot be found in Christanity, as it illogical on every level, please let me explain.
In Islam,
a) God is uncreated
b) is all powerful
c) everything is in need of him and he needs nothing
d) there is nothing like God in existance
e) it is in line with the belief of all the Prophets (peace be upon him)
In Christanity You say that God and Jesus are one but at the end of your email you said that Jesus looked to the heavens and supplicated. John 17 v1 for example, Jesus 'looked toward heaven and prayed'.
Now if they are one why would he feel the need to look up and supplicate? This is illogical because if I have a pain in my foot then the foot does tell me that I need to examine the pain, I know straight away. This disproved that they are one being.
The second commandment states not to make and idol of God now you are saying that they are one, so the Christan belief negates God's own law!
Third, you belief that God needed the following:
a) a woman to bear part of him,
b) that he had an adolensence,
c) he needs to eat
d) he needs to go to toilet
e) he needs to wash his body
f) he needs to comb his hair
So you belief that this is your God? This sounds like a human being NOT GOD.
Most Christans that I have met do not look seriously or logically at their religion it is blind belief without the necessary back up of logic.
Many Christan preists have written essays on how the Muslim religion has a great number of worshippers in their congrejations like on the friday prayer. Some have said that they wished they had as many worshippers as the Muslims do on friday. Nevermind the amount of worshippers on the Eid prayers.
Christans count athiests as part of their religion as well, which no other religion do. Most people in the Uk, US and Europe are athiests who do not conform to any religion.
As for Islam it contines to grow yearly as more people come into Islam and of course the birth rates play a part in this. So even if you accept that the smaller number is wrong and the larger number is right, then Jesus himself was wrong because he has about 12 followers in his lifetime and most people were pagans.
There are very few Christans who are honest with me when debating even when they are presented with these facts which to any inteligent thinking person would accept straight away.
Peace out
Thanks for getting back. I know we are not going to agree on the death and resurrection of Jesus and you know that I do not agree that worshiping Jesus is polytheism - since the Father and Jesus are one.
In John 20 Thomas who like you didn't believe in the resurrection met the resurrcted Jesus. He then got on his knees and declared Jesus to be "My Lord and my God!" Jesus' reply was not - "Wait on there Thomas - you are falling out of the frying pan of disbelieve into the fire of herresy!" No it was "How slow you are to believe". Jesus accepted the ultimate worship - the declaration of "My Lord and my God!" Unless Jesus is God then Jesus could not even be considered as a prophet.
I was interested that you state that Christianity has 'no more importance' because it has been rejected by Western Societies. Western societies have rejected religion and God per se - not just Christianity - so the Muslim faith is in the same boat in this one. Your argument suggests that if it has been rejected by one particular culture then this in some way disproves Christianity as being true. In fact there are more people who profess to be Christians in the world (2.1 billion) then there are Muslim (1.5 billion). [Christianity in the largest populated country in the world (China) is growing fast]. This means that more people in the world have rejected the Muslim faith than Christianity.
However, this still proves nothing: Western culture have accepted homosexuality as being acceptable - this doesn't make its attitude true!
Thank you for your very interesting point about how Jesus and the Prophets prayed - I think laying prostrate on the ground is a good way of praying, (there is a real reverence in this!) but not the only way. In John 17 v1 for example, Jesus 'looked toward heaven and prayed'.
Peace
Our response
Dear Brother
In Islam the understanding of God makes logical sense which is something that cannot be found in Christanity, as it illogical on every level, please let me explain.
In Islam,
a) God is uncreated
b) is all powerful
c) everything is in need of him and he needs nothing
d) there is nothing like God in existance
e) it is in line with the belief of all the Prophets (peace be upon him)
In Christanity You say that God and Jesus are one but at the end of your email you said that Jesus looked to the heavens and supplicated. John 17 v1 for example, Jesus 'looked toward heaven and prayed'.
Now if they are one why would he feel the need to look up and supplicate? This is illogical because if I have a pain in my foot then the foot does tell me that I need to examine the pain, I know straight away. This disproved that they are one being.
The second commandment states not to make and idol of God now you are saying that they are one, so the Christan belief negates God's own law!
Third, you belief that God needed the following:
a) a woman to bear part of him,
b) that he had an adolensence,
c) he needs to eat
d) he needs to go to toilet
e) he needs to wash his body
f) he needs to comb his hair
So you belief that this is your God? This sounds like a human being NOT GOD.
Most Christans that I have met do not look seriously or logically at their religion it is blind belief without the necessary back up of logic.
Many Christan preists have written essays on how the Muslim religion has a great number of worshippers in their congrejations like on the friday prayer. Some have said that they wished they had as many worshippers as the Muslims do on friday. Nevermind the amount of worshippers on the Eid prayers.
Christans count athiests as part of their religion as well, which no other religion do. Most people in the Uk, US and Europe are athiests who do not conform to any religion.
As for Islam it contines to grow yearly as more people come into Islam and of course the birth rates play a part in this. So even if you accept that the smaller number is wrong and the larger number is right, then Jesus himself was wrong because he has about 12 followers in his lifetime and most people were pagans.
There are very few Christans who are honest with me when debating even when they are presented with these facts which to any inteligent thinking person would accept straight away.
Peace out
Monday, April 21, 2008
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